More recently, in 2011, a mountain lion roamed Connecticut before being hit and killed by a car. That's the real story is they can't follow up on every one of these sightings. He said matter of fact I do. Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. Is that typically what was happening there. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. They don't know the direction they're going. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. "There is a very low possibility of seeing them in the. Peter Biello: Listeners give us a call if you have a question or a story of a sighting 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. Can we go to the site. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. Infinite Scroll Enabled. Pelosi story here we go. And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. I mean it wasn't your idea. It was killed in Lee New Hampshire in 1853. Really appreciate it. More than 450 Facebook users as of Thursday had shared a photo Marc Weir posted Wednesday showing the big cat and . The last catamount in Vermont is finally, officially, certainly dead. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. My YouTube Channel NH Fish and Game YouTube Channel My Facebook Page My Weekly Live Stream on the NH Wildlife Federation FB Page Home About Eric 2022 NH Nature Notes NH Wildlife NH Wildlife Deer Deer in NH Let's look for other evidence. In Vermont, it was 1881. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. Listeners we'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this. Thank you. If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. The great thing about pictures isn't the animal itself it's the background. So. She is renowned for tracking. Were there any differences between these two that we could have noticed right off. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. Mountain lion or cat running across. It was some sort of a Lion Mountain Lion animal. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. I can't. Ecosystem Management Consultants of New England, Ask Sam, and recently fielded question about mountain lions, In latest school funding trial, state attorneys argue NH districts' budgets are bloated, Lawmakers, advocates, families in NH react to Biden Admin's proposed Title IX change, Give Back NH: The New England Grassroots Environment Fund, NHs housing crisis is pushing more older adults to seek help, We also hear excerpts from an interview with, Read about the most recent cougar "sightings". And it was you know 10 or 12 people saw it all at once. And those are not the same things. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. MicroBios. Based on this blurry photo and pawprints, DEEP confirmed it was likely a mountain lion. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. Credit: Elizabeth Nichols via Storyful . The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. John you're on the air. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. Rick van de Poll: Yes. We'll hear from her periodically through the show. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. But are there mountain lions living in New Hampshire? Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. Your support makes this news available to everyone. (Credit: Buddy Wilkerson via Storyful) . It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. Something along those lines. They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. Peter Biello: Wow. We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. #4. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. Patrick Tate: Yes. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. Well thanks for sharing. Support for an age PR comes from you our listeners. However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. In Vermont, it was 1881. Artculos cientficos; Artculos de divulgacin; Menu So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. Caller: And the more I thought about it the color of it it was definitely not a bobcat. Mike you're on the air. They reported seeing the big tail and everything everything. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. I've collected scat samples I've got several in my collection. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. Caller: Are probably. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. Peter Biello: The number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. I didn't see him online. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. Wes Siler. So you want identifiable backgrounds. It's good to talk to you. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. Have it reported down in the Keene area. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. "Of those three to five reports, one. lewis structure for ch2cl. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. I would say that there's going to be the truth in here somewhere. I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? Still, it's been over 100 years since the last mountain lion was killed east of the Mississippi, except for a patch of them down in Florida, where there are supposed to be 100 to 200 still living. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. Peter Biello: Today on the program Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist and far better project leader Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in which is about the natural world and how we use it. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. What Really Caused Washington's Cougar Attack. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. If youd like to submit a question (or send a mountain line photo) you can record it as a voice memo on your smart phone and send it tooustidein@nhpr.org, OR call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (1-844-466-8837) and leave a message. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. Thanks for calling. It was a 3:45 pm on the east side of the river . There'd be there'd be all sorts of you know basically a lot of hassle required if that were to happen. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. That's too big for Bobcat. A trail of DNA evidence collected over the years shows this particular mountain lion had traveled through New York, Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. Patrick Tate: Nice talk to you too. Can you look into this picture. Peter Biello: Yeah. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. So. There was no sign of it. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. And the second question is this a behavior mountain lions exhibit. It's listed as population of least concern. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. You don't know what's going on. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. So what a neat experience. We mentioned that one cat that was hit by a car where it has it that it was a male looking for me. Pat what do you think the mystique of the mountain lion. Sean McDonald. State officials have said, over and over in recent years, that the eastern mountain lion has been completely wiped out from the Northeast. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. Like why would you want one wildlife. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. Yes. So it's there was no question in my mind. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. You saw what you saw. And we want to know your stories if you have them 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or email exchange at an HP bar dot org we'll talk about conspiracy theories when we come back. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. Patrick Tate: If I could just say one thing. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. 50 feet above the most. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. The experts' take on what happened last Saturday when a mountain lion killed one cyclist and injured another outside of Seattle. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. So so. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. New Hampshire Public Radio | So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. Part II. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. Caller: I do. And Rick Van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. Sam. So maybe a good pet for you but not for your neighbor if you just stop by unannounced. Border Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction. Give today. Don't miss your chance to win three two thousand dollar gas gift cards at any station of your choice not to mention the grand prize twenty five thousand dollars toward a new car. Caller: Hey guys how you doing. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. Today she talked with us a little bit before the show about why the mountain line is so compelling and why we want it to be part of our world. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. So I know it's another unconfirmed report but you string enough of these together. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. So if you were to ask me has a mountain lion ever passed through New Hampshire and been spotted by somebody who wasnt able to get hard evidence? Id personally be willing to say "probably, yes.". And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. There's no logic for why they'd be listed as an endangered species. Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. So so do what you can get to do what you can to get proof. Get your tickets today and one for fifty dollars or six for 150 at NH PR and board. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. New York on Easter Sunday. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. It doesn't happen as much anymore. Thank you very much for listening. All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. Tell us your story. Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. I found a second scat scent both to him. Caller: Hi. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. Fish and Game looked into the labs to have them confirm the information in the reports which the labs did not. You know interactions are pretty unusual. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. How far were you from this cat. On a dirt road. Patrick Tate: So it's very typical. Patrick Tate: It's wow interesting that you brought this up because I've had people report I saw cardamom. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. Patrick Tate: So I agree with what Sam said in part that their ability to go undetected for amount of time but ultimately it was detected. And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. These were normal everyday folks. Tonight, Sean McDonald . And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. And it was unmistakable. Thank you. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. Its impossible to say, but I think the odds are pretty good that some of these sightings are legit. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal . There's no attraction. They absolutely do. Women control our lives. Your support makes this news available to everyone. So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. The scientific name for the catamount is Puma concolor. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. It was in the spring flash kind of early summer and my wife looked at you look at the size of an adult bear and we were up in arms. He was just walking along the river then went up into the woods . Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. By Eric Orff. Residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. The last wild mountain lion in New Hampshire may have been killed in the White Mountains in 1885. Rick van de Poll: Well a report that you know as John Harrigan up north has in co-ops County for about 15 years I kept track of reports and people would call me and tell me where they saw the mountain lion they thought they saw it and it varied right from you know downtown villages all the way to remote highlands of the North Country and and everywhere in between. A young male cougar weighing about 40 pounds was shot and killed this week near Whiteclay, Nebraska. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. That's next time on one day. And that the Florida panther was more closely related to the eastern outline than the western mountain lion was. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. Absolutely. So that did it for me. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. The American Lion The Saber tooth Tiger and this was the one that survived. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. State officials confirmed the presence of a mountain lion near the Quabbin Reservoir in the late 1990s. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. The last known mountain lion killed in New Hampshire is displayed at the Woodman Museum in Dover. The report came in from a conservation officer. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. 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