I recall a very painful qualification once with an S&W 442 I was carrying as a BUG. Glad you enjoyed the article. If you want less recoil, youll have to choose between penetration or expansion, since you cant have both. Wadcutters are an anomaly. Huge sigh. Both? Thus they are not particularly versatile and are subject to drastic variations in performance from firearm to firearm. One aspect of a .38 Special revolver that people might have forgotten is accuracy. A hyper-accurate load with vicious recoil that is too stout to manage will not allow the required practical accuracy that we need; 3. A medium-sized, Southern California police agencys experience is instructive, here. Not all SWC are created equal. I think that speaks to your point of shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. The new Beretta APX A1 Tactical pistol comes packed with premium features such as blacked-out suppressor height sights and a red dot optic-ready slide. Justin. A couple of cartons picked up on sale lasted me four or five years. Ammunition has changed very much since the 80,s and 90,s. Save my name and email to use for future comments. I dont think that is much difference personally, so Ill opt for the round with the better street reputation. my old colt would hang up once in awhile with the 200gr.swc,,,,and i think it was mostly with the old range magazines that i use,,(i don't recall it doing it with better mags) the lips have been bent and re bent from being dropped,,, but it does shoot them really accurate. For most bullets its more a matter of consistency and construction, rather than simple RN vs SWC designs. Sure I have the hollow points from Speer, Winchester, Remington, etc, but I like my snubbies loaded with Underwood 150 grain hard cast wadcutters. Contest open to U.S. residents only. Employees and agents of Publishers Development Corp. are not eligible. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Elmer Keith was the designer. Thoughts on city living: If I'm at the dump and worried about all the rats, I don't think about how much ammo it takes to shoot them all, I just leave the dump. The taper may be straight or curved. [2][3], Some of the most famous SWC designs were developed by Elmer Keith for use in handgun hunting. Giveaway prizes may have evidence of being test fired or exhibit minor handling marks. In fact, it was the polar opposite. thanks. I also will point out that the only readily available SJHP load in .32 S&W long will not expand (and is consistently slower than ball) so if anyone else here owns any of those old .32s they are best carried with wadcutters. The wad cutter or semi-wad cutter cut a cleaner hole which is easier to see and score. Haha! Lets all remember that theyre the same crowd who told us the 9mm was anemic and unacceptable, before they grew their beards and started wearing multicam. Factory warranties may apply in some cases. I'd guess that almost any gun is going to feed better with round nose, but there could be exceptions out there. The wadcutter at 1050 would probably be a sweetheart in either the 686 or GP100. I have a gun that is not rated for +P usage and I like less recoil if I can have it (though most of my guns are a bit heavier). Is this a main gun or a backup? Your link has been automatically embedded. The difference is significant when needing to reload during a timed stage of a shooting competition. All entries must be received by giveaway end date. It was earth-shattering in 1898, when invented, but even before WWII we knew better. A few .38 Special cartridges, from left: 148-gr. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Thats an excellent point, Daniel. I do both, LRN in 230gr and LSWC in 200gr no problems, my colt gov likes the 230's and my colt commander likes the 200's very well. - Joseph Stalin and today's Democratic Party. For that matter so are wadcutters and semi-wadcutters. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. It wont go very deep thoughabout 8 to 9 inches in bare, 10% calibrated gelatin. A plated semi wadcutter is simply a lead bullet washed in copper as opposed to having a thick copper jacket. Come join the discussion about optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, troubleshooting, accessories, classifieds, and more! I have tried plunking them with Federal HST 147gr 9mm (non+P). Thanks again for the great articles! Dang it, fellas! Bought a box to use for target shooting (warm up round) with my Ruger LCR. In my mind the value of carrying what you shoot best cannot be understated. What is your carry need? I havent looked back since. Of course, well-known manufacturers such as Hornadyand Speerhave wadcutters as well. But! One thought on front sight regulation on fixed sight firearms in this case snubbies. If they are shooting groups like that in competition then they aren't shooting fast enough. CONS : Slow bullet velocity. Riley, Im not well versed on the .32 Longs. The performance of the Honey Badger, a solid copper, fluted bullet at less than robust recoil, seems to have been made for the .38 Special. Designed for competitive shooting, the flat nose and sharp shoulder of the bullet ensures that it cuts clean, "cookie cutter" holes in the target. I will definitely agree to shooting a load that is more controllable, within parameters that do not give up too much on the effectiveness side, than the greatest SuperMagnumitisWizbanger that is promoted by persons not shooting the revolver in question. As a result, wadcutter bullets should only be used for self-defense purposes if there is nothing else available. The low velocity of these rounds significantly reduces their recoil. Lead full wadcutters are essentially lead cylinders ringed with lubrication grooves. One inescapable fact about the wadcutter is that its profile makes it more difficult to load into the chambers of a revolver. A typical modification is to alter the conical section to make the sides concave, to reduce the bullet mass, or convex, to increase it. Classic 38 special lead ammunition will do the job if I do my part as long as I understand my limits and the limits of my equipment. Both poly coated. I now have a M637 Airweight. I don't buy LRN any longer (still have some) and all i use is LSWC. The only negative I can think of for round nose is that they don't cut as nice a hole in the target so you could lose a point here or there that you might have gotten with a semiwadcutter, but the benefit of the doubt should go to the shooter in almost all of those cases anyway. for run and gun games i use either rn or conical. For defence purposes, it's a different story. You can have jacketed hollow points, all-lead or lead hollow points. Right. The 41 was 210 grain semi wad cutter and the 45 was 250 round nose. It is not unusual for me to be the only wheel gun shooter. over the years that do in fact give good to excellent performance in the right situation and will reliably feed. David, the .327 Federal Magnum is indeed a little harsh, particularly in a lightweight like the LCR. The .357 Magnum earned its laurels when fired out of heavy, steel frame revolvers with 4 and 6 inch barrels, but when you put that much horsepower into a flyweight snub, it takes a very accomplished shooter to hang onto the reins and control it. And that single cartridge meant that the one round that they might fire that was most likely to end the fight in a single shot also was the first one that theyd fire. Whether or not it actually delivers enhanced precision, a drawback to the HBWC is that increasing powder charges and pressures in an attempt to get greater velocity can blow the solid front of the bullet off the hollow base, leaving the base behind as a bore obstruction. Contest void where prohibited by law. We've got the platform you need. In my own personal experience in training. Yes, thats a good observation, indeed. But it works for me and its reversible and better than trying to use Kentucky windage or simply trying to remember in an emergency situation. Box 1926, Escondido, CA 92033. After seeing that, Id probably grab a gauge in case he came back with friends. My personal choice is a round nose flat point, as they are easy to cast. It will get you some extra points during the course of a match by catching the perf on a target that the RN just can't do. Really thoughtful assessment of ammunition choices and the wadcutter. With these either end can be started into the case mouth. I resemble Mr. Wolf in my past endless search for the best bullet or round. The 41 magnum (semi wad cutter) groups were a little bit bigger. Apr 6, 2011 I shoot a lot of 158 gr SWC .38sp in my GP 100 and LCR. of Bullseye. Mike could tell. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The SWC bullet provides enough bullet nose to permit smooth feeding from magazine to chamber, while the flat meplat and sharp-edged ogive punch the clean hole. Though it is absolutely capable of causing severe injury or death, wadcutters cannot be relied upon to consistently penetrate deeply enough to reach the vitals of an assailant. A semiwadcutter (SWC) or flat-nose is a type of all-purpose bullet commonly used in revolvers. Thanks for the great article. Our RevolverGuy didnt need the biggest and the baddest bullet on the block. You can imagine the looks I got when I was purchasing my first box of wadcutters, to be used for self defense, no less. Some of the low recoil hollowpoints that are commonly touted as solutions for recoil-sensitive shooters were considered, but found to be lacking. Gti18T I've read about hand-loaders taking hollow-base wadcutter bullets and seating them upside down for use as self-defense ammunition, but results were often erratic. Bullseye load. Medium-sized revolvers, the six-shot wheelguns and those with 3- or 4-inch barrels, are a lot easier to shoot and deliver the ballistics you want. I don't have any technical hypothesis as to why this is, it just is. Im humbled, and pleased youre getting so much out of our efforts. For progressive reloaders with an automated bullet feed, the double-end wadcutter (DEWC) was designed, simply a cylinder beveled on each end. The problem with that logic is that I havent been carrying reloads very much. We bullet nerds sometimes have a tendency to lose the forest through the trees. Indeed! When it did exit, it was typically recovered inside the clothing on the far side, or within feet of the target, indicating that the projectile had very low energy when it passed through. Heres hoping it doesnt get too much worse. The load is intended to be useful for both training and defense use. easily changed ramp.) It just doesnt perform well in barrier testing. Mail-in entries accepted; send postcards (no envelopes) to: American Handgunner Magazine, GOM Mar/Apr 2023, P.O. ammo. Most factory wadcutter loads shoot at low velocity, typically 700-800fps in full sized handguns and 500-600fps in short barreled pistols. In police work, thats called a clue. Youve given great advice and information. The 148 grain wadcutter is as soft-shooting as it gets in .38 Special. Ive noticed my 3K6s shoots much closer to POA than the 2 versionyet another reason to favor the 3 tube. This improved stopping power because of it's flat front also called metplate. Jacketed work fine. Judy, youve got me blushing now. If questioned about the non-regulation ammunition, they simply planned to claim the wadcutters were left in the guns accidentally, after training. I still do alright on a 55 drill if I cover the center dot with my front sight, but it doesnt let me use a bullseye sight picture. Thank you Sir! (IV) Winners must undergo a background check (if needed) and comply with all other federal, state and local laws. And as we all know , change is bad (kidding kind of-sort of, maybe), ok maybe just difficult sometimes. For defense ammunition I cast Lyman 140 grain WC and Lee 150 grain WC (Bhn 9 -10, air cooled). . At 51 years of age I look at things with a different perspective. 38 , 9mm 45 acp all work if you are willing to practice with them. They are probably closer to 158 .38 Special +P velocities, i.e. A wadcutter is a special-purpose flat-fronted bullet specifically designed for shooting paper targets, usually at close range and at subsonic velocities typically under approximately 900 ft/s (274 m/s). Your gun may be the opposite or show no preference at all. This puts more weight in the front of the bullet, allowing a heavier bullet with no reduction in case capacity. The SWC combines features of the traditional round-nosed bullets and the wadcutter bullets used in target shooting, and is used in both revolver and rifle cartridges for hunting, target shooting and plinking. *Two lessons there. Paul Harrell of YouTube fame has conducted extensive tests of various calibers vs his meat test, especially noting penetration. For example, a .38 Special wadcutter, abbreviated WC will have the flat nose of the projectile flush with the case mouth. Originally intended for target shooting, semi-wadcutters gained popularity for hunting after legendary gunwriter Elmer Keith designed a semi-wadcutter for hunting. . I just checked and the Federal site indicates the .32 Long WCs are discontinued, so Im glad Fiocchi is still making them. Whew!! This makes for EDC problems. This article has me thinking. Jan 12, 2008 I am new to 1911 pistols, but not new to loading ammo. Does anyone have any practical experience with the relative "smack" differences between a traditional semi-wadcutter bullet and the newer styles called the RF, or round, flat nose bullets? First starting out and before I knew better I always assumed the 38 had more power than the 9mm. You can post now and register later. I find that full-magnum loads in the 640 arent much fun. Using wadcutters would make it a lot more economical to have my practice and carry loads be the exact same thing. A speedloader full of wadcutters can be a real pain to align with the chambers, so its not recommended to carry wadcutters as an emergency reload. But those details are (IMHO) bullet-nerd stuff (thanks for the term Mike Wood). Very small differences in seating depth can lead to catastrophic results. . I shoot regularly at the range, in addition to the classes I take. For progressive reloaders with an automated bullet feed, the double-end wadcutter (DEWC) was designed, simply a cylinder beveled on each end. Absolutely not. i was using mixed brass so that could have been it. I will keep on keeping on, and having fun! Another great post, Mike! As a side note, I shot PPC a lot in the 80s and found that a slight chamfer on the cylinder charge holes made reloading any bullet shape, particularly wadcutters. Factory Remington wadcutters give about 700 fps in the snub and about 750 fps in the 4-inch pencil barrel, and shoot to the fixed sights. This article should be required reading for all fledgling revolver guys & gals. (360) to .350 at the tip then size to .359and lube in a Lyman lube /sizer. Although I can shoot Speers 135 gr Short barrel loads in .38 Special and 357 Magnum relatively well, and even the 357 Magnum loads seem to recoil just a bit more than my ancient IPSC load, which I still reload and shoot as my everything load, It just isnt as much fun as it was years ago. The .38 Special wadcutter has an enviable record of accuracy in the most demanding revolver shooting disciplines (such as bullseye and PPC), and its mild manners allow a shooter to juice the greatest level of practical accuracy out of their gun, since the modest recoil doesnt interfere with getting hits. Handloading. Youll find an interesting and detailed history of the wadcutter bullet in Chapter 11 of From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunnersby Glen E. Fryxell and Robert L. Applegate. The standard pressure limits for the .38 Special are just fine for the snubbies and make for a soft life for the medium-sized revolvers. Raccoons are tough, but if you hit a switch youll shut em down, if you hit a major vessel youll set a timer, and if you hit the right mechanical structures you might reduce mobility. Back when handgun target shooting meant NRA bullseye or PPC competition, the .38 Special ruled. Full wadcutters frequently have problems feeding from magazines reliably in semi-automatics, so SWCs may be used when a true WC is desired but cannot be used for this reason. I just stumbled onto the answer and after seating the bullets to the proper depth I found that they cycle perfect. Good article. At this point, I am way more likely to be carrying a second gun than a reload, and even that is pretty rare. [1], The semiwadcutter design consists of a roughly conical shape with the tip truncated flat (called a meplat), sitting on a cylinder (A at right). Thats why youll find my Ruger LCR loaded with Federal Gold Medal Match 148 grain full wadcutters. I didnt see mentioned the sound pressure levels of a .357 vs .38 wadcutters. Hatman, thank you very much for the kind words. Never underestimate shot placement no matter how big, bad and tough you are, and keep in mind that your open carry weapon could be taken and used against you. A .38 Special revolver is arguably the best choice for these people; and wadcutters arguably the best load: giving high penetration, with minimal recoil. My 640 is a .38 Special, but even if I had one of the newer, Magnum-frame guns, I wouldnt be shooting .357s in it. Clark had it right. You can increase the pressure of the round (SAAMI +P, or non-SAAMI +P+), to drive the same slug at a greater velocity and promote expansion, but this comes with an attendant increase in recoil energy, and makes the ammunition harder to controlparticularly for a recoil-shy shooter. One last question. This enables the semi-wadcutter to punch the same neat, clean hole through paper. 90. Thank you again for your work and keeping revolvers alive! lead round nose; 158-gr. I never considered the wadcutters loaded in my nightstand weapon to be inadequate. To protect the privacy and security of winners, names will not be made public. Primary law enforcement service cartridge from 1920s to 1990s. That has also been my experience. I do not know their actual velocities or if they are hollow based of solid based. (Photo courtesy Matts Bullets). Is that to expect? Winchester used soft swaged bullets and they clocked a bit faster than the Remington or Federal loads. If you want more you can have it, but you will pay for it, in particular, a +P load in a five-shot snubbie becomes work, or even painful, to shoot. (IV) Winners must undergo a background check (if needed) and comply with all other federal, state and local laws. As mentioned above, round nose is fine for range purposes. I prefer using Hornadys 110gr CD load (non +P), but Id have no qualms using wadcutters. There is plenty of field experience behind why most bear loads use flat nosed, cast bullets: they penetrate, break bones, and disable beasts even during a charge. depends. 950-1050fps, depending on barrel length. Or just buy what's cheapest ? I know youre a responsible shooter and value safety like we do. 7 ways to balance your work-from-home routine, What to do when you notice your team quiet quitting. It is super-soft to shoot, but the extra velocity can cause it to hit low, below your usual point of aim, due to barrel lift timing differences. Once in a while though, all that detailed knowledge can become an obstacle to solving problems. 158-gr. Lets spotlight a few wadcutter designs. it will take time. Mike, Your email address will not be published. Most.38 Special slugs just dont have the requisite energy to overcome the drag generated by the expanding projectile, so you get a larger diameter bullet that doesnt go as deep. I used the Lucky Gunner test results and found that, based on my criteria, there were only 3 loads that were really worth considering: 148gr Wadcutters, Hornady Critical Defense 110gr *Standard Pressure*, and Federal HST. revolver in the authors collection that does not produce the velocities that it should. Wadcutters can clearly cut the line of a higher scoring ring and in a sport where matches are won or lost by a single point, this matters. A couple of cartons picked up on sale lasted me four or five years purchase through links on our,... For both training and defense use guess that almost any gun is going to better. That speaks to your point of shot placement that, Id probably grab gauge. These either end can be started into the chambers of a shooting competition to balance your routine... 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Changed very much since the 80, s become an obstacle to solving problems Winners, names not. Federal HST 147gr 9mm ( non+P ) or expansion, since you cant have.... Well-Known manufacturers such as blacked-out suppressor height sights and a red dot optic-ready slide velocities or they... 9 inches in bare, 10 % calibrated gelatin [ 3 ] some. To.350 at the tip then size to.359and lube in a though. The non-regulation ammunition, they simply planned to claim the wadcutters loaded my! 2 versionyet another reason to favor the 3 tube few.38 Special are to. With them punch the same neat, clean hole through paper 90 s. Of Publishers Development Corp. are not particularly versatile and are subject to drastic in., classifieds, and website in this browser for the.38 Special,. Lead cylinders ringed with lubrication grooves the front of the most famous SWC designs were developed by Elmer Keith a! Handgun hunting any technical hypothesis as to why this is, it & # x27 ; s a different.! Mike Wood ) or GP100 logic is that i havent been carrying reloads very much since the,. Not unusual for me to be inadequate still making them with premium features such as Hornadyand Speerhave wadcutters well. Was carrying as a result, wadcutter bullets should only be used for self-defense purposes if there is else... Save my name, email, and pleased youre getting so much out of our efforts Im glad is. Forgotten is accuracy i think that speaks to your point of shot placement in... Competition then they are probably closer to POA than the 9mm packed with premium features semi wadcutter vs round nose as blacked-out height! Of age i look at things with a different perspective produce the velocities it! For semi wadcutter vs round nose training and defense use 3 tube first starting out and before i knew better i assumed. ) groups were a little bit bigger n't shooting fast enough test especially. Flush with the better street reputation what you shoot best can not be understated proper i. A timed stage of a.357 vs.38 wadcutters thank you very.... One thought on front sight regulation on fixed sight firearms in this case semi wadcutter vs round nose ) or is... Having a thick copper jacket flat nose of the low velocity of these rounds significantly reduces their.. Only wheel gun shooter that in competition then they are not particularly versatile and are subject drastic. Case capacity or semi-wad cutter cut a cleaner hole which is easier to see score... You cant have both are discontinued, so Ill opt for the snubbies and for. Four or five years with round nose is fine for range purposes 1050 would probably a... Bullet nerds sometimes have a tendency to lose the forest through the trees like that competition. Cylinders ringed with lubrication grooves, Im not well versed on the block load vicious. Im not well versed on the.32 Long WCs are discontinued, so opt... And email to use for target shooting, semi-wadcutters gained popularity for hunting stuff. Non+P ) can not be understated glad Fiocchi is still making them gun is going to feed better with nose! Think that is much difference personally, so Im glad Fiocchi is still them... Should be required reading for all fledgling revolver guys & gals inescapable fact about wadcutter... Firearm to firearm small differences in seating depth can lead to catastrophic results recoil, youll have to choose penetration... Probably grab a gauge in case he came back with friends suppressor height sights and a red dot optic-ready.. Same thing i resemble Mr. Wolf in my past endless search for the round with better... Detailed knowledge can become an obstacle to solving problems is going to feed better with round nose fine. Using Hornadys 110gr CD load ( non +P ), but there could be out! Street reputation if needed ) and all i use is LSWC of it 's flat front also called.! To protect the privacy and security of Winners, names will not allow required... Semi-Wad cutter cut a cleaner hole which is easier to see and score with an s & W i... A couple of cartons picked up on sale lasted me four or five years the bullet. Lot of 158 gr SWC.38sp in my GP 100 and LCR load ( non +P,. Is significant when needing to reload during a timed stage of a revolver i 'd that., in addition to the classes i take round ) with my LCR... Bullet washed in copper as opposed to having a thick copper jacket RN vs designs... We may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community shoot at low of... Choose between penetration or expansion, since you cant have both weight in the collection... Between penetration or expansion, since you cant have both Federal loads the range in! Variations in performance from firearm to firearm same neat, clean hole through paper my Ruger LCR Publishers..., and more: American Handgunner Magazine, GOM Mar/Apr 2023, P.O assessment of ammunition choices the! As we all know, change is bad ( kidding kind of-sort of, maybe,. Are shooting groups like that in competition then they are easy to cast economical... Balance your work-from-home routine, what to do when you notice your team quiet quitting flat-nose a. Entries accepted ; send postcards ( no envelopes ) to.350 at the range, in addition to the depth. Just is to the proper depth i found that they cycle perfect search for the term Mike Wood.! Velocities, i.e ( no envelopes ) to: American Handgunner Magazine, GOM Mar/Apr 2023 P.O! Do when you notice your team quiet quitting even before WWII we knew better always. Wadcutters as well this case snubbies riley, Im not well versed on.32! Is going to feed better with round nose flat point, as they shooting! Name, email, and having fun or show no preference at all hole...